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posted by [personal profile] rahirah at 04:04pm on 18/01/2004
Spike managed to make a crypt comfy--somehow I don't think he'll have trouble making an apartment liveable! (And that's what I'd like to see, you know--Angel's place all austere and artistic, Spike's homey and cluttered with books and beer bottles.)

I still have forlorn hopes that at some point in the future Dane will come back in a saner state of mind, because I'd really like to see Spike get into another difficult, challenging relationship with someone...but totally nuts is a bit too challenging even for me.
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holding hope for touching Spike-poverty

posted by [identity profile] jwaneeta.livejournal.com at 05:11pm on 18/01/2004
*hopefully* Yes, but it'd take him a while to make it homey, don't you think? After all, there's no indication that L is giving him much walking-around money.

I'd like to see a relationship with Dana develop in the future, but I'm not betting on it. At this point she's sporting all the plumage of a character who's there to propel one episode. Chop those hands and then disappear forever. Too bad, because you're right: lots of good problematic relationship stuff there, gobs of it, if she ever got (even part of) her sanity back.
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Re: holding hope for touching Spike-poverty

posted by [personal profile] rahirah at 05:15pm on 18/01/2004
Perhaps we can compromise on touching scenes of Spike furnishing the apartment from second-hand stores and dumpster-diving expeditions, while Angel lolls in the lap of luxury yet is strangely dissatisfied with his lot?

I floated my Dana desires on BAPS and was roundly castigated for being a sicko. (sulks) Well, of course! That's the fun part!
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BAPS

posted by [identity profile] jwaneeta.livejournal.com at 06:50pm on 18/01/2004
I signed up at BAPS a couple of days ago (nomail, lurking). A cursory scroll through recent posts revealed some well-written posts, but, ouch, the doomsaying.

Missed anything by you about Dana. Will have to go look. Must say it's unclear to me why folks would find a possible relationship with Dana anything but good. Complex, yes; fraught, sure. Therefore: good story. Spike would show up very well indeed, if he could get past the hand-chopping and befriend such a person. And don't people want more of Sensitive Spike? Don't they bemoan his current eclipse?

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Re: BAPS

posted by [personal profile] rahirah at 07:12pm on 18/01/2004
Oh, that was ages ago, when spoilers for the hand-whacking first broke. Some of us speculated that in light of the dearth of female characters, SMG's disinclination to appear, and so forth, that Dana might be a try-out for a recurring character, and that maybe she was a potential romantic interest for Angel or Spike. That Dana's age was specified as mid-twenties made this more plausible.

You'd have thought we'd suggested that Angel should go back to raping underage kittens or something. The very idea of Spike and Dana becoming friends or more was denounced as sick because Dana had mutilated poor Spikey.

Never mind that Dana was nuts, hardly responsible for her actions, and would have to get considerably better before any relationship could occur. Never mind that Spike's done horrific things himself, and that his last serious relationship was with someone whom he regularly tried to kill (and vice versa.) Never mind that Spike has the emotional resiliancy of Kevlar, and is not at all likely to be thrown into years of wittering trauma by a little thing like losing an appendage, especially if it's only temporary. The idea that he could EVER entertain kindly feelings towards someone who'd hurt him was just WRONG! And Dana was obviously a sick bitch who should be disposed of as quickly as possible.

Ahem.

Actually only a few people were that adamant, but they were very vocal about it. Some of them allowed that it might be all right if Spike had a distant, kindly-old-mentor relationship with her. But romance would just be ICKY.

They want Sensitive Spike, but only with Buffy or some suitably bland and toothless female. They want a NICE romance. Which would bore me (and, I think, Spike) to tears. Actually I think what some of them really want is William with fangs. Phooey on that.
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Re: BAPS

posted by [identity profile] lordshiva.livejournal.com at 08:47pm on 18/01/2004
I've asked, but never get a reply (and sometimes I think my posts are removed:-)- but what do people at the BAPS list want for Spike? Can you get a bead on it? Because based on everything they don't want, what they want sounds dead boring to me.
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Re: BAPS

posted by [personal profile] rahirah at 09:14pm on 18/01/2004
I don't think there is one single thing. There's a group that wants sensitive, insightful, mature Spike, who's always kind and considerate and saves puppies. There's a group that wants him with Buffy, come hell or high water. There's a group that wants him with anyone but Buffy, ditto. There's a group that's more or less happy with what we've got now. There's a group which seems to believe that AtS is worthless save for Spike, and that it's an insult that the entire show doesn't revolve around him. There's a group gloomily convinced that Spike is only around to be a whipping boy to make Angel look good. There's a group which is rabidly antagonistic to Spike's wardrobe. You name it, there's a group for it.

I mean, I want things I'm not getting. I'd like more arc. I'd like Lilah and Cordy back. I'd like Lorne cut back to recurring til they can give him a story. I'd like more on the mindwipe. I'd like them to fish or cut bait with Buffy. But all in all, I think the season's been pretty decent, especially considering the limits they're working within, and several of the shows make my all-time favorites list. The weakest of them has had moments.

I've come to realize that a lot of people really are only fans of Spike in a romantic context, and specifically in a romantic context with Buffy. They only like him when he's love's bitch. Whereas I think for me, all I needed was the character to be willingly helping the good guys. I enjoyed B/S, a lot, but Spike was just as besotted with Dru, and his romantic streak is not in and of itself the reason I love the character. OTOH, while I did need him to be trying to do good of his own free will, I don't need or want him to be a flawless person who never does anything wrong, as some people seem to. Sure, there's probably a point at which I'd have to say "I don't like him any more." I reached that point with Buffy. But it took a lot, and up to the very end there were things Buffy could have done which would have retrieved my good opinion. (And she did a few of them; by the end I pitied more than disliked her.)
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